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Polish FM Bartoszewski favorably impressed by visit to Turkey

'Turkey has had opportunities of independent action and independent activities for decades and Poland along with the other countries of the so-called Eastern bloc have only been independent for the last 11 years'
Regarding the crisis between France and Turkey as a result of the former's parliamentarian vote to pass the bill commemorating the so-called Armenian genocide, he commented: 'I believe that historical problems should be justly dealt with by historians ... I don't think historical problems should be treated as a kind of political manipulation'
'There are also issues that are convergent for us, namely that Poland and Turkey are members of NATO but not members of the EU. Turkey and Poland treat their membership in NATO as a very significant fact ... Poland and Turkey believe that their endeavors to become members of the EU do not contract their very special relations with the United States'
One gets the impression from Bartoszewski that the opposition to joining the EU, such as it is, is not terribly significant. He believes that in a referendum up to two-thirds of society will vote in favor of membership
'Poland has not relinquished its position as a major state in Central Europe whose ambitions include playing in the region a role corresponding to its potential. Which is not to say, that Poland cherishes ambitions to become a regional mini-superpower'

Gul Demir

Istanbul - Turkish Daily News

Someone recently described the differences in attitude between such countries as Poland and Turkey towards entering the European Union as follows: The Eastern bloc countries are enthusiastic and positive about entering and are doing everything they can. Turkey, on the other hand, is standing back and still asking whether or not full membership is a good thing.

Polish Foreign Minister Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, who recently visited Turkey for two days, seemed to be an appropriate person to ask about the differences in attitude. His country was one of the leaders in the resistance, if not revolt, against the domination of the Soviet Union. He himself was among the resisters, as he has been throughout much of his adult life, starting with being a member of the underground during World War II after being imprisoned in the Auschwitz death camp.

When the Turkish Daily News asked Bartoszewski in an exclusive interview about the differences in attitude, he responded: "It is very hard to say. Turkey has had the opportunities of independent action and independent activities for decades, and Poland along with the other countries of the so-called Eastern bloc have only been independent for the last 11 years and had the opportunity to act independently. So the chances are not equal in this respect.

"I also believe the issues of public opinion and independent and free political discussion are not equal. I believe that Turkey is a country with a lot of experience and does not need advice. Turkey, the government of Turkey and the people of Turkey need to consider this and decide what they want. I think there is not just one recipe, one cure for everyone. I don't know what is good for Turkey, but I'm sure that for Poland membership in the EU is very positive."

Bartoszewski in fact has commented that Turkey today is surprising from the social, economic and political points of view because it is far ahead of where Poland was when it started discussions with the EU over membership. He pointed out that government intervention had to be reduced in his own country and the basis for a free market established. And most importantly the entrepreneurial spirit had to be cultivated and developed.

The spry, active gentleman whom no one would believe is in his 70s is a lover of Chopin and a prolific writer -- actually he was but now says that spare time is limited until he relinquishes his position as foreign minister. He has been touring a number of countries recently and he when asked about the current distress between Turkey and France over the bill passed in the French Parliament concerning the so-called Armenian genocide, he excused himself for not knowing all the details. But in a more general comment on that and similar situations, Bartoszewski said: "I believe that historical problems should be justly dealt with by historians ... I don't think historical problems should be treated as a kind of political manipulation."

The Polish foreign minister hesitated somewhat about describing his visit to Turkey even after having time to reflect on it. But he said: "I had appointments with the foreign minister, defense minister, prime minister and speaker of Parliament. It was very well prepared by the Turkish government on a very high level because I could meet and talk to all the key people. I decided that this was a sign of respect toward the Polish side and the will to cooperate and develop very good relations with your state. And within the framework of those relations, there is the visit of the president of the Republic of Turkey to Warsaw in June.

"There is nothing sensational in my impressions because I expected a very friendly and fruitful course in the conversation and that was the way it was."

The most extensive talks were with his counterpart Foreign Minister Ismail Cem especially over such subjects as the EU and NATO. Bartoszewski said: "We decided that the relationship between our states and nations is very good and that the atmosphere of those relations is very good.

"There are also issues that are convergent for us, namely that Poland and Turkey are members of NATO but not members of the EU. Turkey and Poland treat their membership in NATO as a very significant fact and treat it very seriously, and there are again limitations of the role of the United States in Europe. And Poland and Turkey believe that their endeavors to become members of the EU do not contradict their very special relationship with the United States. Turkey and Poland support in general the idea of enforcing the European defense community but in a way that would not make any conflict between the EU and NATO and would create some kind of agreement between them. We would not like an unclear situation to result from this. And we would not like any weakening of NATO and a weakening of its efficiency. Poland and Turkey believe that the fact that they are members of NATO should give them more possibilities for access to all elements of the EU's strategy and thinking although they are not members of the EU.

"So, as you see we have a broad range of issues that are common to us, common to our thinking. Poland has more chance in the EU in two or three-years' time, but Poland will represent a position in the EU of supporting Turkish accession in the EU."

In fact Turkey vigorously supported Poland's application for membership in NATO and this has forged new Polish-Turkish bonds. Turkey and Poland actually have more than 500 years of contacts starting with the establishment of diplomatic relations by the two countries in 1414. Despite the vicissitudes of conquest and defeat and time, the Ottoman Empire chose to support Poland after he had been partitioned for more than 120 years. The Ottoman court "waited for the envoy from Poland (Lechistan, as it was then called) who was still 'on his way'." In turn, Poland was the first European country to recognize Turkey when the Turkish Republic was proclaimed.

Negotiating with the EU not easy

Bartoszewski expressed some sympathy for Turkey as it goes through the complexities of negotiating with the EU and even expressed his country's willingness to advise if necessary. "We know that negotiations are a very difficult process and that they frequently require comprehensive legislative work and changes in legislation, even touching upon the Constitution itself," he said. "Poland has experience in this field and is ready to help Turkey. In a few weeks' time there is to be a meeting here with Poland's chief negotiator."

Poland of course is quite a long way further down the line in its negotiating with the EU when one compares its position with that of Turkey. Still Bartoszewski stressed: "I think much remains to be done. We have a lot of energy, but still there remain 16 chapters, 16 fields that we need to discuss with the EU and that we need to adjust to. So this needs a lot of effort and each chapter, each field requires a lot of legitimate effort and work with Parliament, also a lot of negotiation to bring it together.

"I can tell you that in our negotiation strategy we envisage 11 chapters to be concluded, to be closed during the Swedish presidency and five more chapters to be closed during the Belgian presidency in the second half of the year. In our Parliament there is a European Law Committee that deals with European legislation and there are representatives of all parties on this committee. It deals with the passage of legislation and preparing the laws and the bills for the parliamentary sessions. Legislative efforts are one side of the whole situation and on the other is our agreement on cooperation in the fields of agriculture and ecology. Here we need our agreement to the conditions and views of the EU in Brussels but also our ideas need to be accepted by all parliaments of all member states. So this is still a very difficult process."

During negotiations, the EU doesn't impose its will or apply pressure, but it does become clear that the EU member countries and candidates have differences of opinion. This seemed to him to be quite normal since there are such differences within the EU itself.

To say that this is a difficult process is something of an understatement since there is opposition in Poland to joining the EU. However, one gets the impression from Bartoszewski that at the moment this is not terribly significant. "There is an opposition but the opposition that is organized is outside Parliament and not very big," he said. "But when we hold a national referendum, we will need about 60 percent, up to two-thirds of society are going to be in favor of membership. We are reminded that Sweden acceded to the EU with only a very small majority of the votes.

"But I think the motives for the opposition are quite different; we are not afraid of losing our identity because it is very firmly rooted. Neither the Germans nor Russians managed to take it away from us during 123 years of occupation.

"But there are many concerns among farmers and people dealing with agriculture especially where competition is concerned; they're afraid of losing. And they need very broad information that would tell them about the balance of losses and the advantages and disadvantages of integration. Our opinion polls show that the more education people have, the more they support the EU and integration and the less they have, they are against it."

Polish foreign policy

Bartoszewski stressed that the most important objective of Polish foreign policy in 2001 is the conclusion of negotiations concerning the conditions of Poland's membership in the EU and the drafting of an accession treaty.

"We give top priority to national security, Poland's integration into EU structures, strengthening stability and the good-neighborly environment of cooperation in the region and development of relations of friendship and partnership with all states, first and foremost European ones."

Within the context of the integration negotiations, "Poland has been trying to oppose the slowing-down of the process of enlargement of the EU being mindful not only of its own overall vision of Europe's unification but also aware that foot-dragging on the accession would increase the adjustment costs and diminish public support in Poland for integration into the union. In the meantime we declare our will to join fully the EU areas of activity, such as the Schengen system or some areas belonging to the Common Foreign and Security Policy and especially the European Security and Defense Policy (ESDP)."

As if this weren't enough, the Polish foreign minister emphasizes that all of these negotiations haven't made the country lose sight of where it stands with its neighbors. "Poland has not relinquished its position as a major state in Central Europe whose ambitions include playing in the region a role corresponding to its potential," he said. "Which is not to say, that Poland cherishes ambitions to become a regional mini-superpower. Needless to say, none of Poland's neighbors would tolerate such aspirations. Our country's ambitions are focused instead on the aforementioned concept of solidarity. Poland wants to share its experience with other countries and help them along the very path it has chosen for itself. We would like to be rich enough to be able to match political assistance we offer to others with sufficient financial resources. Regretfully, this is impossible for the time being, even though we have earmarked considerable funds to financing our cultural policy, our system of academic grants and advisory assistance addressed to the Central and East European states. We shall further promote development of cross-border cooperation that takes the form of Euro-regions. Poland is an active member of both the Council of Baltic Sea States and the Central European Initiative. However, we would like to forge a new kind of bond supporting the development of the entire region ... not only this regional initiative."

Is Turkey listening?